PvP Tierlist

schrieb am 2021-10-04 10:42:54

yeah, pet pvp is dead
and to counter that team you could play a sandstorm team, maybe try a S/S sandyback crawler

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Gladly#11647

schrieb am 2021-11-05 19:03:14

I face this person all the time too. Always political names. It's hella frustrating for family brawler achievements. Seems like they don't queue later in the evening/night (EST) though, if that helps.
(editiert)

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Mad schrieb am 2021-06-23 04:35:26

Any update you foresee for the update 9.1? Any pets we might want to focus on to get?

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schrieb am 2021-06-23 04:55:19

Mawsworn Minion (*/2/*) might be an interesting tank pet. It isn't OP but I can't wait to test it :)

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schrieb am 2021-06-23 12:41:16

One thing that is always a problem for predicting whether a pet will be good is that we never know the available breed(s) until the patch goes live. Imagine we didn't have the Fiendish Imp, but it was scheduled for 9.1, We could look at the moveset and say "I HOPE it's going to be fast" but until we see the available stats, we really can't say.

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schrieb am 2021-02-26 04:14:16

How about the S/S Nightshade Sproutling (*/2/1)? It's even stronger than before because of the weather changes.

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schrieb am 2021-03-08 06:22:23

technically yes but i personally never liked to play it with darkness. the NS was pretty popular back in legion. darkness was a meta strat back then and the most used darkness pet was the boneserpent. NS was a good combo because it was really hard to kill due to both the blind and the healing which couldn't be prevented by darkness.

this playstyle nowadays would be too slow to be competetive against other meta teams and if you'd want to play with darkness then there are just better pets for that right now. also 325 speed aren't enough anymore

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schrieb am 2021-03-11 05:52:23

it's not just because of darkness. darkness + blinding poison make this pet strong. And 325 speed is still decent. I think it deserves at least a Tier 3. Just a suggestion :)

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schrieb am 2021-03-12 14:37:02

325 is only decent if you are not playing against meta teams.

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schrieb am 2021-03-12 15:39:43

I'm curious what are the "meta teams"? Nevertheless in my opinion the S/S Nightshade Sproutling (*/2/1) is a strong pvp pet even with "average" speed stats. (editiert)

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schrieb am 2021-03-14 15:20:47

I'm surprised that the Nightshade isn't on here albeit tier 3, I will add it when I'm not on mobile. There's various speed breakpoints 325, 341, 349 and 366 for the faster pets. With the Nightshade being at the lowest'fast' group it's very susceptible to being slower. (editiert)

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schrieb am 2021-03-14 18:48:27

we removed the nightshade on the 19th january 2020 (some genius put it in the changelog)

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schrieb am 2021-03-15 05:26:55

Probably needs adding again simply because it has call darkness carrying it

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schrieb am 2021-03-17 15:52:43

Nightshade added

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schrieb am 2021-03-17 17:14:02

Great :)

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Toothpick schrieb am 2021-03-10 18:37:35

Is Will of Remornia a good pvp pet? What abilities should be used?

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schrieb am 2021-03-14 15:25:04

It's an ok pet if you run the heal in the 1st slot, cleave 2nd and heal in 3rd. You should be able to survive enough to get two cleaves off which is ok damage but not like Anomalus levels.

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schrieb am 2020-12-08 10:29:07

Arachnoid Skitterbot (1/1/1) is missing. I think it is one of the tankiest pet in the game + it's a really fast pet. Won a lot of games with it :) (editiert)

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schrieb am 2020-12-09 07:14:16

It's one of those pets that's great vs weak teams but bad vs meta comps especially Aoe, Sandstorm and Dazzling Dance.

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schrieb am 2020-12-09 08:58:37

Yep think you are right. I haven't played in the current meta yet. Weathereffects are really powerfull now (or an issue) :D

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schrieb am 2020-12-09 10:39:04

The issue with buffed weather is it's pretty difficult to compete against them when you aren't also using a buffed weather

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schrieb am 2020-12-07 20:03:05

Errors:

1. Direbeak Hatchling is listed twice, appearing in tier 2 and 3.
2. Dusky Dreadwing Pup in Tier 3 is listed with the condition of Toxic Fumes weather, but with a moveset that's unaffected by Toxic Fumes

Queries:

1. S/S Alpine Foxling went from Tier 1 to completely absent, is this intented?
2. You recommend Spirit Claws on Cursed Birman. With 289 speed, is an 80% hit chance move, or 70% during darkness, better than Pounce?
3. You list the Spectral Raven with Nocturnal Strike instead of Call Darkness. If this is intended, perhaps it would be best to list a condition of using other pets with Call Darkness.

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schrieb am 2020-12-08 09:40:21

Errors:
1. Fixed
2. Dusky Dreadwing has Huge Fang.

Queries:
1. Alpine Foxling suffered from several changes; power creep for Dazzling Dance pets, Flurry being fixed and weathers being buffed. You can still use it and it will be ok but if you're choosing it for Dazzling Dance there are much better options.
2. The combo is Prowl into Darkness so to an extent the first slot doesn't matter significantly.
3. Fixed to Darkness.

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schrieb am 2020-12-08 09:47:12

How does https://www.wowhead.com/pet-ability=930/huge-fang benefit from Toxic Fumes?

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schrieb am 2020-12-08 09:56:21

It has a hidden interaction of ramping up to max straight away.

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schrieb am 2020-12-08 18:47:31

Bloody hell, really? Okay, that's a bizarre bug. Is it only Huge Fang that works that way, or do other ramping abilities like Deep Bite or Vicious Fang skip ahead too? (editiert)

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schrieb am 2020-12-09 10:07:35

Vicious Fang is the only other one I believe. I've been told that back at the start of pet battles they worked with poison in some way and it appears as if the mechanic of Toxic Fumes still buffs it.

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Spoofmasta schrieb am 2020-11-26 22:41:02

Bronze Proto-Whelp ability Bend Time comment on warcraftpet.com sounds as though it is fixed. Anyone confirm?

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schrieb am 2020-11-28 03:58:29

its still broken

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Spoofmasta schrieb am 2020-12-01 20:52:10

Hey thanks. May b only reason i stopped subbing.

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schrieb am 2020-11-19 11:16:30

Because of 9.0.2 changes Call Darkness+Nocturnal Strike is now Tier 1?! :D

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schrieb am 2020-11-21 03:20:18

We are planning to update the list once Shadowlands is fully released so new pets can be added. The fledgling warden owl/crimson skipper are the best with this combo as they can two shot 1400hp.

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nightflight

schrieb am 2020-10-17 14:57:24

why does it have murkalot on Tier 1, the ability Righteous Inspiration is how played?

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schrieb am 2020-09-10 05:40:22

A team I run into a lot and have been having trouble countering is 2x Anomalus and a Hermit Crab. One Anomalus uses Toxic Fumes and the other uses Void Nova. I've recently been running a team comprised of Qiraji Guardling (1/2/2), Wicked Soul (1/2/2), and Gleamhoof Fawn (1/2/1). Usually it's a strong healing team, but against this matchup only the Qiraji Guardling pulls its weight. Sandstorm helps to mitigate the damage of Poison Protocol, but then he changes the weather to Toxic Fumes and unleashes a stronger second Poison Protocol. If I save Sandstorm until after Poison Fumes is out then it's too late. Corrosion and Posison Protocol destroy the Qiraji without the buffer of a sandstorm. My backline pets take too much damage for the usual strategy of swapping and using group heals to be a net positive health gain. The Wicked Soul does nothing to the Hermit Crab, and the Gleamhoof Fawn takes strong damage from the Hermit Crab if it uses its Nature's Ward.

I've tried teams with strong damage against magic, but most of them rely on Scorched Earth, which comes back to bite me if I use a magic pet to try and counter the aquatic damage of the hermit crab. I can't use big hits to kill the Anomalus quickly because of the magic racial, and if I rely on multiple hit attacks like Flurry, I'm either not fast enough to attack first against Hermit Crab, or I don't have enough power in the stat budget to kill Anomalus quickly.

If I bring a flying pet to counter the Hermit Crab the Anomali will destroy it. I am yet to find a pet that sufficiently counters the two Anomali. Is there something I am missing? Or do I just need to wait until the Hermit Crab is nerfed? I haven't seen any signh that Anomalus is getting nerfed, so once the crab is hit I might just start facing 3 Anomali.

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schrieb am 2020-09-10 06:16:04

well just use two sandstorms so you can counter both anomalus. qiraji guardling as your opener to change the weather as soon as they use fumes and when they swap to the second anomalus bring in the other sandstorm pet. as long as you can keep sandstorm up you can't lose

also right now the bronze whelpling is one of my favourite pets to counter anomalus right at the start of the match (editiert)

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schrieb am 2020-09-10 13:10:38

Disco has also featured DAH and Flayer Youngling as useful counters in the Anomalus meta.

Edit: from Disco's site http://pvppetbattles.com/multi-attack-probability-tree/

Pets that allow Anomalus zero attacks:
SBH 0.06%

Pets that allow Anomalus only one attack:
Bronze Whelpling 100%
Crystal Spider 100%
Whomper 100%
SBH 61.28%
Flayer Youngling 26.64%

Pets that allow Anomalus only two attacks:
SBH 100%
Flayer Youngling 100%
Mongoose Pup 100%
Dandelion Frolicker 100%

(editiert)

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Tirpack schrieb am 2020-06-28 06:15:28

hey guys, quick question about your sample teams. What's the reason you use "low" tier pets for these despite your pvp tier list listing several higher tier pets for the same role? (for example your clonedance team has blighthawk, the lowest cloner on your list, instead of for example shore butterfly, the highest. Same for Sandstorm with living sandling over qiraji guardling or anubisath idol).

Is this just for variety? Or as "budget" alternatives for people who don't have the other pets yet, etc.?

Thanks in advance for the reply :)

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schrieb am 2020-06-28 14:02:31

There are several teams shown for each type. You can see them by hovering over the tab at the right. In Clone Dance, Blighthawk is used in the first team, but Shore Butterfly in the second, and Infinite Hatchlin in the third.

And the second team in Sandstorm uses a Qiraji.

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Tirpack schrieb am 2020-06-28 14:46:20

wow, im an absolute idiot, I just now saw the alternatives option... thanks a lot mate!

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schrieb am 2020-06-28 15:10:51

I didn't find that when it was first introduced either, and it took me a while before hovering over the tab felt natural, so don't worry about it. :)

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schrieb am 2020-06-29 05:06:46

Making a good team is slightly more than putting all the highest tier pets together as there is often coverage or counters you need to consider. Generally you don't need a team of the highest tier pets to do well either. There are some players that do and exclusively use the same strongest pets but all are fairly easy to play around once you know their team.

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Tirpack schrieb am 2020-06-30 12:28:27

nono, I know that of course, I was just confused because I didn't see there are multiple versions for each archetype, so I just assumed that the "one" sample team they show would include a top tier version to kind of give people a "goal" to work towards. Was just all a big misunderstanding from my side :P

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nomisuke

schrieb am 2020-04-30 14:17:26

I would just like to say thank you for setting up this tier list. I put together three PvP teams using a combination of tier 1 pets and they are unstoppable. Right now my main team is S/S Fiendish Imp (1/1/2), P/S Twilight Clutch-Sister (2/1/2), and Fel-Afflicted Skyfin (2/2/2). I always start with Fiendish Imp and cast Nether Gate even if it's against a mechanical and it throws off the other player for the rest of the fight. If I am actively playing my character, I come out victorious 90% of the time. It made pet week a breeze.

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Lordy#2592

schrieb am 2020-03-05 12:51:45

Ah OK thanks for explaining Shenk. Actually I do have a suggestion for the Tier list. One of my go to PvP pets is Squirky and I have lost count of how may battles that guy has won for me. He solos elemental heavy healing teams, is great vs TCS if you swap in punch and with 292 speed clobber + bubble combo + Fish Slap he can often be a finisher. For my money a solid Tier 3 pet and in the current meta heavy with Elementals (For me) I would rate him even higher. What do you guys think?

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schrieb am 2020-03-05 12:55:08

if you go to the top right of this site you'll see the "quick info" box and at the bottom of that there is an arrow you can click that shows the changelog for the tier list.

you'll find that squirky used to be in this list. i do like it too but we removed it since the speed no longer is good enough anymore for it to be reliable and it kinda got replaced by kelpfin
however squirky is still in the list of the best humanoids

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Lordy#2592

schrieb am 2020-03-04 12:46:27

Just noticed a possible mistake in the list. In the Tier 3 Pets there is listed "Infinite Hatchling (1/1/1) or other dragons with Cyclone and Call Lightning" As Infinite hatchling doesn't have that combination of abilities I wondered if you meant Thundering Serpent Hatching?

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schrieb am 2020-03-04 13:13:12

thundering serpent, wild golden and wild jade hatchling. we restricted the substitutes to also have call lightning because otherwise they would include the sprite darter hatchling which has a very different moveset (editiert)

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schrieb am 2020-01-20 04:44:42

You've added Snobold Runt with abilities 2/1/2, which is Punch, Ice Spike, Weakened Blow. Did you mean 1/2/1, which is Snowball, Kick, Call of Winter?

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schrieb am 2020-01-20 10:26:55

It is 1/2/1

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schrieb am 2020-01-20 19:40:58

But it still says 2/1/2 next to Snobold Runt in tier 3.

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schrieb am 2020-01-21 04:54:33

Ah yes, damn. I had my mind on the family list

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Kairy schrieb am 2019-09-25 06:24:54

It doesn't say, but I assume the numbers next to the pet are which attack to use? IE (2/1/2). Sorry if this is a noob question, while I am pretty decent at dungeons and pet masters I am horrid at PvP pet battles.

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schrieb am 2019-09-25 06:55:15

Yup, that's what it means.

So for example Fiendish Imp 1/1/2 is Burn/Immolation/Nether Gate.

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schrieb am 2019-09-25 13:06:50

yup, and * means both options are viable combined with the other two abilities

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disma#1599

schrieb am 2019-07-19 09:55:48

Kovok is not listed. is the Kunchong Hatchling that much better?

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schrieb am 2019-07-19 17:08:51

kovok is not listed because it has been powercrept a lot. the KH however is able to carry your team easily

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Araka schrieb am 2019-07-10 21:12:28

I think it would be great to do the same thing with a team tierlist ! :D

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schrieb am 2019-07-13 15:20:06

A tier list doesn't translate into teams as easily I'm afraid. There's 100s of top tier team combinations that would be competitive.

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Aerch schrieb am 2019-05-02 04:46:46

It would be really useful to also see the updates which were done on this page.

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schrieb am 2019-05-04 01:23:00

Do you mean a changelog?

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Aranesh

schrieb am 2019-05-04 13:43:19

We have that, but it's not extremely well documented I'm afraid :-)
Whenever one of the article editors makes a change, they have the option to add a version number (with a short description). If they do this, the previous version is saved as a snapshot and everyone can access this in a changelog. You can see how this looks for example in the devlog:

https://www.wow-petguide.com/index.php?m=DevLog
Below the Table of contents, click on the arrow below the "Last Update" line :-)

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schrieb am 2019-05-05 04:23:11

i've noticed that but didn't think someone would actually care for this here ^^
next time i change something i'll add a description

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Aerch schrieb am 2019-05-08 07:38:12

Thank you for the info. I am collecting pets and its good to see that what you find new so I dont have to compare one to one to what I have. :0

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Necro

schrieb am 2019-04-09 08:08:47

with bone serpent now having the notcurnal combo on the same slot, is it still even viable?

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schrieb am 2019-04-14 04:08:14

it still is one of the better darkness pets

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schrieb am 2019-04-22 05:05:12

The bs is still the go to for degenerates in the queue and nerfed or not its still very good.

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Noel schrieb am 2018-11-21 23:09:39

I wondered what tier you would put Baa'l into? His 30% damage move seems pretty good!

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Remte

schrieb am 2018-11-22 01:32:43

Sadly, his stats are pretty bad (though not as bad as many other B/Bs). A 260 speed means the opponent is likely to prevent or mitigate damage/forced swap. The moveset itself seems pretty linear as well, because you wouldn't want to pull Scorched Earth at all, and choosing both Darkflame and Nether Gate makes you stuck with cooldowns. (editiert)

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Noel schrieb am 2018-11-22 10:22:51

That's too bad, I guess he's still useful for PVE fights

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schrieb am 2018-11-22 11:13:48

Not terribly, I don't think. I can imagine he might be useful in some theoretical or future case, against some PvE Boss. He's Magic, therefore cannot be killed in one shot, and does have that 30% move, which could be useful against some boss pet with monstrous HP, like the Bees in Drustvar, but I can't think of any specifically.

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schrieb am 2019-03-04 16:49:13

i actually used it for some argus family fights :)

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schrieb am 2018-12-19 09:33:58

What third pet would you recommend as a solid backup to an S/S Fiendish Imp and a P/S Twilight Clutchsister? I've tried swapping around with a few pets. Vengreful Porcupette, S/S Bunnies, Fel-Afflicted Skyfin, S/S Rose Taipan, Blightbreath, and others I can't recall, all performed well in certain situations or against certain lineups I was expecting, but none of them were amazing or warranted including as a consistent staple. Recommendations? I seem to struggle against undead teams and humanoid teams, especially teams with Sandstorm or Decoy.

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schrieb am 2018-12-21 14:10:38

I run a H/H valk with that combo that's sitting at 96% win rate after about 50 games. I run COD and UH on it for back line swap and 25% extra Twilight Meteorite.
Other options Warbot with Mines, Zandalari with Flank, Frostwolf Ghostpup or P/P Autumnal Sproutling

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schrieb am 2018-12-30 22:53:53

Do you have a team you use if you're frequently facing a Murkalot team? Some days half my games are against someone with Murkalot, S/S Death Adder Hatchling, and a Bone Serpent. I'm thinking probably a team with an S/S Fox with Dazzling Dance.

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schrieb am 2018-12-30 23:23:01

Rosqo made a video on countering a Murk+AoE team here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bD41IlE3aag based on Smoke Bomb, which you can find on the S/S Sneaky Marmot - or a Dust Bunny, but Marmot has the Blind, as well. But your problem sounds different.

How does your opponent use his Murk? The DAH and BS have no big nukes they can deliver with RI. Does he start with Murk, which doesn't seem optimal in this case? Or is he using Shieldstorm? Does he have Darkness or NS on his Serpent?

A Fox will eat a Serpent, and Dibbler with Charge and Wind-Up is glorious against a DAH, but what ingredients is this guy using Murk for?

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schrieb am 2018-12-31 00:38:08

He uses Blessed Hammer, Falling Murloc, and Shieldstorm. His Bone Serpent uses Bone Barrage, Lift, and Call Darkness. And the Adder has Poison Fang, Puncture Wound, and Blinding Poison, naturally. Falling Murloc and Call Darkness destroy Dragonkin, and Shieldstorm protects pets like the Adder to ensure they can get their first move off whenever he switches to it. Poison Fang discourages my own pet swapping, but at the same time punishes me if I lose the mind games and get Punctured while poisoned. Bone Barrage on its own is scary for most Humanoids, plus Darkness hurts the Imp who likes to heal on the backline.

It's the battle that forces me to think the hardest, that's for sure. I had some success with a Foxling and my own S/S Rose Taipan, to beat him at his own Adder game, and to have flurry against Bone Serpent and do some damage on the same turn I remove Shieldstorm. Crouch in the last slot. Maybe a Valk as the third pet would be good addition to those two, but I'd still have two beasts if I face someone else with a Mech team. Maybe you have some better suggestions?

This week I have been using a different team entirely. I decided to get Twilight when it was on sale over Christmas, and have been winning the vast majority of games with Twilight, a Fledgling Warden Owl, and a Teeny Titan Orb with Surge of Light, Light, and Flash. I've only met the Murkalot player once in a battle this week, and I won. But this team also is weak against Mech-heavy teams.

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schrieb am 2019-01-06 04:15:24

Hm, no other responses since? Sorry.

Yeah, someone who plays Murk with Shieldstorm is probably more dangerous than someone who goes for the simpler all-or-nothing RI cheese. Just like people who played Graves with Consume Corpse were more dangerous than those who took the easy-but-cheesy double AoE build.

The thing about Shieldstorm is that is is completely destroyed by a simple AoE like Primal Cry. So I'd think Direhorn, which resists Falling Murloc, and also has the priority move to blunt the DAH.

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etherpotion

schrieb am 2018-09-21 17:45:31

I think this list could benefit from having more details regarding the reasons why they're so strong. I do not know a whole lot about PvP, so understanding why TSC is so powerful would benefit players who are new to PvP. And maybe some more detail as to what builds work and if they work well with certain pets, etc. Just a suggestion.

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schrieb am 2018-09-23 16:02:31

I can list next to the pets their strengths and best abilities to help you with selecting a team? Popular strategies is a page we have been looking at creating, could be something I can look into further.

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Belatar

schrieb am 2018-09-25 05:21:45

that would be great.

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etherpotion

schrieb am 2018-09-29 10:45:36

I think that would be very helpful. To me, I see a P/S TCS, but I would have no idea why she would be strong in a PvP setting.

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Bruski#1762

schrieb am 2018-10-24 21:12:57

That type of article would be *amazing*. I have done maybe 40 PVP pet battles, and still feel like a newb, since I see these pets in tiers, but don't know how to use them, or even always which abilities are strongest.

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Rylene

schrieb am 2018-10-12 07:56:18

What abilities are used for PvP with the TSC and the Imp?

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schrieb am 2018-10-12 12:46:07

The strengths of the S/S Fiendish Imp are :

1. Immolation, and then at some point, probably around half-health, retreating to the back line to heal up from the Humanoid racial as it does damage from the back line to your opponent's front pet.

2. Nether Gate, to switch out a pet you don't want to face with the Imp.

Apart from those two, you obviously want Burn, because otherwise you are left with no spammable attack.

In PvP, the TCS is most often used in a P/S breed to get that 289 speed in hope of being faster than your opponent, so that you can get an extra round's benefit from Phase Shift.

Obviously you take the OP Twilight Meteorite, and you try to arrange to use it on the round your Dragonkin racial procs. With a P/S breed, and in hopes of being faster, you will likely take Twilight Fire rather than Tail Sweep.

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Lithandriel#1864

schrieb am 2018-09-23 14:16:32

Does anyone know of a good guide for PvP Pet Battle Newbies? I have a handful of the pets listed in Tiers 1 and 2, but I'm relatively new to battling in general and I've literally completed 2 PvP battles. No idea what I'm doing... :(

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schrieb am 2018-09-23 16:06:52

I created this over a year ago Link could be useful. I will likely be revising this video/series into something a little more straightforward.

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-2

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PJE schrieb am 2018-09-15 20:35:20

TCS both t1 and t2 top kek
shes fucking tier 0. alongside murkalot.
nothing is even close to those 2.
imp is t2 at best.
SANDSTORM is back. get idol waaaaaaaaay up there. he fucking REKTS again

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schrieb am 2018-09-18 16:44:56

Fixed the double TCS. Idol is there but t3 struggles way too much vs faster pets, it’s literally just a stall pet that makes games longer than required whilst rnging it up.
After Haunt nerf imp is extremely strong again.
The tier 0 term emerged after all these pets were designated t1, this list changes that.

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PetBattleGod schrieb am 2018-09-12 21:32:18

the other imp is just BETTER

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schrieb am 2018-09-15 10:27:18

Rebellious better than Fiendish? I think that current list is correct in more circumstances

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piekid

schrieb am 2018-09-13 16:14:16

So the direhorns... I only see one of them (Pygmy Direhorn) with a PS breed, and none of them seem to have PP. Unless my addon is wrong.

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piekid

schrieb am 2018-09-13 17:01:14

Nevermind, I found the PP.

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mixmaxter schrieb am 2018-08-06 21:52:42

PVP can be tricky. After winning 250 battles, I've learned that skill does play a role against players with no skill. The best of teams will lose at least 30% of the time because of the teams they're paired against Best simple advice I can give to new players, is get a team that makes sense with the moves they have, learn about breeds, and have 3 or 4 different teams ready to go with Rematch add-on. If you are paired with a team that you have no chance against, switch to another team and you'll either have a good chance to beat the last guy or a whole new ball game. Example that did well is SS cogblade raptors w/ stormwing. Stormwing is a flyer with lightning storm, coupled with fast raptors is a good combo. Also have a team ready to combat whatever the popular opposing team seems to be. A lot of players do a search on the best teams without really having any skill and you're up against Teroclaw Hatchling, Bone Serpent and Ghastly Kid. An easy team to beat if you're prepared but annoying if you're going for achieves.

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schrieb am 2018-08-07 14:53:10

Rng needs to be reduced in pet battles and a sandstorm equivalent of nocturnal strike needs adding.
I have several teams with wing rates over 98%, I have another at 95% and a third at 93%, all at 100 plus wind.
The evolved meta particularly sandstorm or sunlight are preventing those kinda ratios going forward. It pretty lame. Oh well next expansion calling it not

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Kiryo schrieb am 2018-09-12 21:33:41

recommend some NON-MURKALOT teams will ya?

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Fysm schrieb am 2018-07-13 19:41:53

tbh this tier list isn't as strong as it sounds

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